SimonWeir
Forum Replies Created
- Posts
-
@steve1977. Pictures as requested. All use the standard OEM fitting, rather than STB. Only reason they are not right up flush to the coving is because of the PIR alarm sensor in the dining-room so B&O installers brought these down by 10 cm on all to have aesthetic consistency. These work very well with great sound imagery and imo don’t need to be landscape firing down, the BeoSound Theatre’s calibration mic sorted it all out. Even before with the Eclipse when I was using the one behind the TV as a Centre Height and the Dining room as Rear Surround Hight, sound great with sound coming down from above. I did consider landscape but it looked weird with the others in portrait around where we sit; especially when I open the doors from the lounge to the dining room when I want to go from 5.1.2 to 7.1.2 with the BeoSound Theatre.
Apologies first 2 pics should be rotated 90 degrees as the speakers are in portrait, as per the last 2 pics.
All WiSA, and as I mentioned on a previous post, I have never had an issue in last 7 years with WiSA with the BL17s. My rears are nearly 7m from the Theatre.
I only had a problem with my BL19 on the Eclipse. I didn’t have any issue with the Avant 55 Gen 1, before that. Not sure why but most evenings you could see on the Eclipse in one of the sub menus that the WiSA quality dropped from Excellent to Poor, but a quick rescan solved it for the rest of the evening.
When they first installed the Theatre I did run the BL19 on WiSA for the first few days with no issue, but ultimately decided as they were pulling through new hdmi cables to take the opportunity to wire the sub. You have to think that the Theatre has the latest radio built in so I am assuming will be better than previous sets.
I feel people have a downer on WiSA (plus a downer on BL17s) but in my experience having lived with it for many years I feel for ease and aesthetics in the room it cannot be discounted as a genuine option. (Remember vs other BeoLabs the BL17s were seen as cheap and plain looking, but their specs and price vs other manufacturers the BL17s were a proper audiophile speaker, at an astronomical price for their size).
I did tweak my Sky Q router to be fixed on channel 36 for 5ghz rather than it be set to auto, not sure if this did anything or was a placebo effect, but every little tweak to clean the airways near the WiSA frequency.
I have 3 BL17s close to the ceiling (highly recommend for size & output quality) although I have them in portrait angled in to the centre of the room rather than landscape and angled down. I do however use them as height speakers in my Atmos speaker group and they are more than a match for the Theatre Centre Front. Equally they sound great in Stereo for music. Only thing to be aware of they are louder from the same input & db level being close to the ceiling, but the calibration equalises all speakers.
John from the Manchester store came to see my install, video the motorised bracket and hear how it has calibrated my speakers.
We watched scenes from Tenet and also Greatest Showman on UHD 4K Blu-ray as these were films he knows well as they are on B&O demo tracks.
We both were impressed, and agree performing better than storeroom demo. The bass is so tuneful, balanced, punchy and can be both fast and slow. Using BL17s as rears or surrounds works very well… more than enough match for the Theatre. The Theatre has self-calibrated very well (remember to turn the slide off on the mic when you put the grill back on). Found best calibration was with the room empty and the doors closed ie I was in the hallway with my iPad.
I would highly recommend for those event films you buy a Blu-ray, and for the occasional film stream in UHD.
I have worked out how to bring back in the side-firing Theatre speakers when they are greyed out, by first selecting virtualise, then change their role and then untick virtualise.
I have ordered Topgun Maverick on UHD 4K Blu-ray which is released in the UK in a week or so, so looking forward to a Topgun double film night in a few weekends time.
Lastly I remembered why I have set the Panasonic to PCM not Bitstream, some UHD discs are in Master DTS and not Atmos so I let the player decode and send a 7.1 uncompressed signal in to the Theatre, as DTS is not supported. In truth not sure it really matters whether it is the player, the TV or the Theatre which does the sound processing… it sounds epic so I am now after a calendar week of tweaking settled with my settings and can enjoy the purchase.
Final nugget, I have realised my G2 65” TV has an annoying whistle from the top right case holes when in YouTube or the LG App… essentially whenever most of the screen background is black. I assume a fan inside works harder and it pushes more air out. I have asked the Manchester store to check their demo screens and if they don’t make this whistle replace my panel under warranty.
I listened to the Edge and it only sounds great when positioned out. I thought it lacking when positioned against the wall. It is a big unit! so impractical for most people unless you have a mighty loft space or open plan room. At the same time I tried an A9, which was well an truly beaten by the Edge in my blind back to back audition.
I considered the Edge for my Study, but I have decided on a small Shape setup. I just have a bias against single speakers, and I cannot get past the need for 2 units for the stereo sound staging. For example I have currently in my Study 2 x A1 Gen1 and these are much better than in the same room a single Echo Studio.
I also considered a Level for the Study and a Balance but the room is not big enough plus I go back to needing for my ears a pair of units so a Shape will be my next purchase.
Re the Shape, I also considered adding a Shape to my Lounge speaker setup because a large Shape setup or multiple smaller setups would be amazing in capability and sheer beauty of what is attached to the wall over in my opinion BL17 or BL28 and I suspect cheaper!
I have just changed 6 days ago my Gen 2 Eclipse 55” to a Beosound Theatre on a motorised wall bracket with a LG G2 65” screen. Movies are my thing with Music secondary.
Everything is run through the TV i.e. music is via an Apple TV 4K using either Apple Music or Amazon Music or YouTube Music (I subscribe to everything!).
To my ears Apple Music on the ATV like for like track/sampling rate etc sounds better than Amazon Music. Also if you search for a specific track in Apple Music and click to see the sampling rate select the best rate… to my ears when I listen to all versions of Fleetwood Max Everywhere (there are many recordings to stream) you can hear subtle differences through the BL17.
I do not use the apps on the TV. Also have a Sky Q on UHD 10bit, and a Panasonic UHD Blu-ray… I still buy the 4K disc for those films I except to be epic eg Tenet, Topgun Maverick (waiting for release in the UK in November) and stream from Netflix and Amazon Prime, Disney, Paramount those which I think are a 1 time watch.
As an owner of 3 sets of BL17, I am a big advocate for these often dismissed/overlooked speakers, plus I prefer them to BL18, even though the BL18s outsold the BL17 10 to 1.
BL17 are so tuneful, plus are so accurate, but also versatile, especially for their size. You can use them for any music or role in a movie surround setup, and they never get close to what they can manage. Also the build quality is impressive… they are heavy beefy units.
For their size they punch well above their weight.
I use four (2 x FL + 2x FR) for music with a BL19 and would say I prefer this for music than my Beosound Theatre.
I have tried a pair of BL17 in a direct sound comparison with a pair of Levels and a pair of Balance. To my ears the BL17 sit above the Level and below the Balance in capability and sound quality… but the Balance looks hideous on the wall and the Level’s weakness is the wall mount with power connector is not a strong physical connection to the wall; plus they can distort when played hard.
I can see the Level becoming the new choice for surround speakers (because of cost, size and frankly there is nothing new else out there) but remember you get what you pay for and BL17 are close to 1.5 x the cost of a pair of Levels. Just look at the specs, their is no comparison… the BL17 are a true BeoLab speaker and the Level is a portable speaker.
Level:
2 x 4” woofer drivers 1 x 2” full range drivers 2 x 0.8” tweeter
2 × 30 W class D for woofer 1 × 30 W class D for full range 1 × 15 W class D for tweeter
39 – 23000 Hz
Maximum Sound Pressure Level @1m 96 dB SPL
Bass Capability 79 dB SPLBeolab 17:
1 x 3/4″ tweeter 1 x 6″ woofer High frequency driver: ¾” dome drivers with off-set placement 1 x 160 watt class D tweeter 1 x 160 watt class D woofer
31 – 24,000 Hz
Maximum Loudness @1m (SPL) 106 dB SPL
Bass Capability 90 dB SPLBalance:
2 x 5,25” woofer drivers 2 x 3” fullrange drivers 2 x 2” full range drivers 1 x ¾” tweeter
2 x 200 watt class D for bass 2ohm 2 x 100 watt class D for fullrange 4ohm 2 x 100 watt class D for fullrange 4ohm 1 x 50 watt class D for tweeters 6ohm
26 – 23,000 Hz
Maximum Sound Pressure Level @1m 104 dB SPLBass Capability 88 dB SPL
You can set the guide button in the Sky Q settings to take you to the home menu. This follows through when using PUC. Using the Beoremote with Sky Q in your hand is more natural than the OEM Sky remote as the home button is a stretch for your hand being in the centre of a wide remote.
Have no fear in making the change the beoremote is another thing B&O do so well… it just works with every source. I have it set to Sky Q on PUC A and Apple TV4k on PUC B. Just a shame only 2 PUCs as HDMI-CEC for my Blu-ray is not as good as PUC, which I had before on the Eclipse, so I will when loading the actual disc use the on the player controls to get the movie playing.
You work with the room you have. My wife and I sit on a sofa each so with the Eclipse I followed the TSG instructions of setting distances to the ear of the person sitting closest to each speaker, and the effect worked very well. Also each speaker was set to 65db. So the Eclipse worked out the delays and all sound got there correctly.
For general TV and the Saturday night film, the surround works adequately. I used to set the middle of the 3 BL17 speakers to Surround Left so both seating positions had that close to them, this was better than Centre Back which was a mix of both SL + SR.
When we watch UHD Blu-ray with the doors to the dining room open the Back Left + Right BL17 give good rear sound and we’re calibrated to +6 db, which was the maximum.
When it is just me listening to music I reposition myself so I am more in the middle with the TV in standby position flat against the wall, only using the 4 x BL17 + BL19 and this sound is excellent for Stereo.
My system demands a dedicated cinema/listening room but as I said at the start you work with the room you have.
This is where B&O excel in the room calibration and to my ears and those of the installers we can get a sweet spot, which is mighty impressive. From the few hours listening I can confirm the Theatre does this better than the Eclipse.
Everything is working however I will be writing to B&O support, because there is a problem with the mic calibration and what can be edited in the app.
I have an odd room layout of sofas which in my Eclipse I could fix in the edit… I have a BL17 behind and above the Theatre which was in the Eclipse set to Centre Hight, but this role does not exist in the Theatre. NB. a few of the roles in the Harmony/Eclipse are not in the Theatre e.g. Wide, CH, CB, Ceiling etc. Now I can work around that as I assume they were not recognised Atmos roles but TrueImage roles. Shame though as not now as per the latest BeoVision TSG.
Problem when using the mic is it picks this speaker up as Front Right and does not use the FR in the Theatre. In the edit I can reassign the BL17 but I cannot edit the Theatre roles assigned by the mic, so now I am missing a FR. I cannot understand why the app does not let you edit the Theatre roles when connected with other speakers. Only if you only select the Theatre on its own can you edit these. My fix is to not select this specific speaker when running the calibration.
To use all 4 x BL17s or all 6 x BL17s (when I open up the portion doors where I have another set of BL17 set to be Back Left & Right in my Atmos listening position), with my BL19 I have to set these as their own group (without the Theatre) and only for music.
Another thing to remember is it is very easy to delete your initial stand position and then create new groups but now the stand does not move until you recalibrate the stand. Would be great to have a ‘save changes’ or ‘exit without saving’ option if you change your mind, because I did this a few times after the installers left… even called them to come back as I thought I couldn’t fix it myself, but with patience I got there on my own.
We also worked out why on Friday we lost the Sky Q and Apple TV… the 4K HDMIs in the wall from the Eclipse Gen 2 install were reused (2 years old) but these were not 10bit compatible with the Sky Q, despite being advertised they were, so today all the HDMIs were replaced. In total, and I know I am one of the first motorised wall brackets globally installed in a residential home it took 1.5 days to get to where I am at, so learning for the installer and me. They were great and showed patience, but with every B&O product I have they have never worked perfectly from the start… every time I have needed the installers to come back; I acknowledge usually because I have played and altered a setting but for what I have spent they should be bullet proof and fully user acceptance tested.
Finally, despite assurance the bracket plate is identical as the bracket for the Eclipse, it is not the same, so you cannot reuse the same holes if you are going for the same size TV. The Eclipse had 14 holes but the Theatre has 13 holes but spaced narrower together. In my case in the same space a 65” fits where was once a 55”, so expected filing and repainting.
Whilst I remember, would have been nice that the Beoremote changes ‘Speaker’ to ‘Listening Position’, so matches app. Also that you can also use the stand option, as it only has ‘Manual Control’. There are time when I want a different combination to those combined ‘Listening Positions’ created in the app.
It sounds like I am only moaning, but I can appreciate the more powerful sound especially how the Centre channel is so much clearer. I do think it could have had more PUCs and an extra HDMI as the eARC uses one, so I have needed to put my UHD into the LG G2 to use the universal control HDMI-CEC, but as the pass through is now the reverse path, for some unknown reason it doesn’t recognise Atmos via bitstream and so still needing to use PCM to get 7.1. From the Panasonic DP-UB820EB.
Photos to follow asap.
It is up on the wall, and the motorised bracket is much beefier and quieter than the Eclipse. We are having some teething problems and so the Manchester stores is back to me on Monday AM to finish.
It is not calibrated yet but I can confirm the step up from 55” to 65” is great for viewing and even better doesn’t seem to fill the wall much more because of the Eclipse’s over hanging Soundcenter.
I won’t lie I was upset last night because it didn’t get finished in a day, more so that it won’t be until Monday; but it was a day of learning for the installers and a learn for me to never agree a Friday install again.
A little nugget for you I went to see John today in the Manchester store and he had his filming equipment out so whilst he didn’t confirm he was making a video, I expect a posting soon.
I will also offer John to film mine as the bracket mechanism is a joy also good for people to understand what to do when your room is not the perfect shape. The mic calibration was not assigning all my speakers to the roles I expected.
…Long story short, please have patience and I will reveal my setup very soon.
My install is happening today. It will be the first motorised wall bracket for the Manchester store. I am moving from an Eclipse Gen 2 55” to a Theatre with a LG G2 65”. Interestingly the actual physical size difference is minimal due to the protruding beyond the screen soundcenter on the Eclipse. Hoping the increase in screen size will be epic for movies but not too overwhelming for general TV.
I will add pictures once it is up and running.
As I have it I will be connecting my BeoLab 19 subwoofer (moving to wired from WiSA as I experience nightly momentary drop outs where the sub stops, flashes red and then immediately green and is playing again 5 seconds later, I tried different locations in my room but it still happen most nights between 10 PM and 11 PM, so my neighbours or something in my house is causing this), along with my 3 x sets of BeoLab 17 speakers for surrounds & height on WiSA (rock solid connection, so assume the radio is better on these than the BL19).
In the last 8 years I have direct swapped from Avant 55 with motorised floor stand to an Eclipse Gen 1 with motorised arm bracket to an Eclipse Gen 2 using same motorised bracket. Connected to 3 pairs of BeoLab 17 and a BeoLab 19 all via WiSA. Only swapped so quickly as the Avant 55 screen went red and required a board change under warranty and the Eclipse Gen 1 screens showed ghosting where Sky News ticker banner is, and no LG C9 screen could be sourced.
I was planning to swap again to Eclipse Gen 3 to get the LG G2 screen, but may consider Theatre with 55” screen on the motorised arm bracket, but I don’t like the look, (don’t like the BeoLab 28 look either) and I have found a workable TrueImage Atmos via Apple TV outputting LPCM, or my Panasonic UB820 sending 7.1 over LPCM for UHD Discs.
Due to the limitations of my room the Soundcenter is always set to FL, CF, RF, and cannot add any speakers to take over the Front role.
1 of my BL17 is set to CH (above the Eclipse when it is powered off but just behind above the Eclipse when it travels out) and this really aids the Soundcenter centre channel.
Other BL17 are set to:
SL, SR, LB or LSH, RB or RSH, depending on source.
I have tried many locations and settings for the BL19 and have returned to all 9 speakers filtered to the sub. I did for a long time run with only the speakers in the Soundcenter filtered to the sub and the BL17s unfiltered as I liked the extra base round the room… bit like how this will now be with the Theatre.
All the above being said, I have SMS the hero that is John at Manchester Bang Olufsen for an audition of a Theatre as soon as they have one in the store and setup to decide on whether now is the time to swap and to what.
My Apple TV 4K is connected by PUC to an Eclipse Mk II and previously older Apple units to an Avant 55 and a Eclipse Mk I. Whichever Apple units and whichever BeoVision product I have always needed to set the Apple TV to go into standby after 15 mins, as the PUC off has never worked.
