[NQVHNWI]

So just to add to the chitter-chatter looking at the Nvida, it looks from the specs (and again my interpretation of tech), that it too cannot handle DTSX? Rather, it passes the buck to the downstream reciever to fix the problem?

Another point is that when you buy a BR disc, or download files from say Kaleidescape, they come with many attached formats. There may be a 4K HDR attached audio file (usually Atmos/DTS-HD) but also they include audio files for non-BR quality sound files (also second language audio files are subordinate quality). So my Atomic Blond Movie I talked about previously has these files attached

4K HDR
English (DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1)
English (DTS-HD Master Audio Stereo)

BLU-RAY QUALITY
English (DTS:X)
Spanish (DTS 5.1)
French (DTS 5.1)
Director’s Commentary by David Leitch w/ Editor Elísabet Ronaldsdóttir*
Described Video – English (Dolby Digital Stereo)

DVD QUALITY
English (Dolby Digital 5.1)
Spanish (Dolby Digital 5.1)
French (Dolby Digital 5.1)
Director’s Commentary by David Leitch w/ Editor Elísabet Ronaldsdóttir*
Described Video – English (Dolby Digital Stereo)

So with the Nvida , guess it depends where you get your files or streams from. Its not just the BS Theatre arrogantly using Atmos only and neglecting DTSX users……the whole industry (from media to hardware ) is like that.

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

I think most streaming services (Netflix, most of amazon Prime) is DD+. Amazon does show Atmos film …..but Im not convinced (from a data package perspective). Next time I play back something on amazon as Atmos…I’ll check Signal Info at to what the Theatre is recieving.

[NQVHNWI]

As I currently understand it, there there is very little between Dolby and DTS root encoding. I believe but stand to be corrected is they are all supported in the Theatre at PCM 5.1 and maybe 7.1??

Where it gets tricky for the Theatre is the extensions to the core encoding of Dolby and DTS is supplying uncompressed data and spacial coordinates of each discrete recorded object. Dolby Atmos specifies height channels to the Atmos, DTSX does not but does give information in a different way to give the impression of 3D spaciousness.

The Theatre has only been programmed to decode the full Atmos compatible data. If it cannot, or if no height speakers are detected, it defaults to a lower standard.

in terms of Atmos or DTSX, when I look at films available in the US Kaleidescape store….there is I believe +10000 titles available to buy. Approx 45 titles are encoded to DTSX, whereas approx 700 are encoded as Dolby Atmos. The rest are of lower standards of both, all the way down to PCM2.0

i can’t tell if DTSX is rising in popularity or not. I suspect not and most studios are releasing in the main Atmos. Additionally, a few days ago I watched Atomic Blonde. It’s one of the 45 DTSX titles available. It played just fine with PCM5.1. Is that the Kaleidescape Player or the Theatre? I cant tell?

 

 

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chartz wrote:

Blah blah. The man is listening to himself. Almost every YouTube video is like that. A written review is much better in my opinion.

people like Andrew Robinson, John Darko et al are all ex-HiFi magazine writer/reviewers. Their job – and livelihood – like all these reviewers is to stitch together word salads to entertain and enthuse us to go and buy the product. An articulated advertisement if you like. Paid by sponsors and product enablers by the word.

With Robinson, at least we have someone speaking about the B&O brand and trying to project its values. Most don’t or won’t. Darko for instance tries to vblog products arguably in the lower spectrum (sub £2000-ish products).

Like all audio products, they are 100% discretionary and anyone buying an A1 or a BL90, or anything in between, you as an adult need to do your due diligence on if it meets your needs, is it worth it and can you really afford it?

At least Robinson invites you in the door to see more.

 

 

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

I believe your Media Player (for which I mean a 3rd party HDMI-connected box and not LGs media player app – in the LG G2) should be plugged into the Theatre. you can control the Player either via a PUC IR (if a common one) or possibly sluggish CEC if enabled.

I believe that your player will only send a signal via HDMI that can be received by the Theatre. This means that normally, your player will typically downscale the DTSX to PCM 5.1 or, it will draw from another format which may already be encoded on the disc/file etc…

I also think the Theatre can do the same thing with TrueImage if it cannot maintain the DTS standard.

What player are you using and what is the media?

 

[NQVHNWI]

I’m not 100% certain…..but I believe that B&O have standardised all their external microphones for the Theatre, BL50 and 90 to the Theatre mic (plus an add-on 3.5mm to RJ45 adapter). Contact your Dealer.

The original BL90 mic (and I assume BL50) was based on the Behringer ECM8000. A shorter neck and single piece inc cable. The ECM8000, requires a XLR to RJ45 cable as well (plus unknown wiring solution at the connections making it too much faff)

That aside, I have had issues calibrating the BL90s with the Theatre mic but not the Behringer. Maybe there is something in it or not?? Contact your Dealer.

[NQVHNWI]

matteventu wrote:

That’s not a “real” problem, plenty of companies are already doing that. Denon, Sonos, Beosound… Yes, obviously if your Wi-Fi network is shit that will reflect on the surround set-up.

But it should not just be up to Wifi. B&O are one of the founding members of WISA.

[NQVHNWI]

I can’t guarantee anything but I’ve never notice a change or loss of settings after updating.

I am also not aware of any issues with 2.5.3 and the Beta team this evening just sent 2.5.5(1039) which I assume is the next step?

[NQVHNWI]

Sandyb,

I think the flip on that (and Im not 100% certain of consistency), is machines like the original Beosound 1, The Beosound Century etc…were cut-down products for those who could not afford the B&O separates range of Source(s) plus beolabs.

Over the years, all the Sources have disappeared (except TVs), lower-end Beolabs have disappeared and there is a deluge of BeoPlay (Bluetooth?) and one-box Beosounds without interconnectivity.

We now have a Flagship product which has been purposely designed to accept Beolabs but there is nothing in the current range suitable for surrounds (certainly heights) and anything new, will almost certainly be a BS Balance-type product with that internal jumper crossed-over to “integrate mode”.

Im certainly simplifying matters by stating “how difficult could it be to integrate a RJ45 powerlink and kill all the electronics apart from the ICE/Soundboard” and use as a dumb Beolab?

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

I stated this before but there are different layers of the B&O onion:-

1. All new B&O loudspeakers I believe will be dual purpose. i.e. a speaker and a communicator for music sources.
2. This means they will be more expensive than a straight Beolab of old but modestly cheaper than traditional Source + speaker setup.
3. There are technical problems of mixing WISA and WiFi (and bluetooth I guess) in small speakers because of the separation required by the respective aerial/antennae for each system.
4. I believe there are a number of new Beolabs coming to open-up the Atmos capabilities of the Theatre.
5. I would imagine that is going to be quite expensive (3 pairs or 6 units if each is considered like a BS Balance in different form-factor) i.e. £18-20k? where only the transducer side is required.
6. As you said, mozart is a bit of a mess because in my mind….like my point 1 above, it is trying to be all things to all people, it is trying to incorporate AES and other products into the control/integration umbrella, add-in complicated speakers with source/source control and it gets expensive, complicated and delayed in product release.

[NQVHNWI]

I think the RJ45 is wired ethernet, the usb-c is i think another power-option without the charger puck. Both the RJ45 and usb-c are intended for permanent wall mounting.

The manual – as im sure you have seem already makes no reference to Powerlink connections.

Interesting that there seem to be different connection boards too?
https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=aMEN4n8B&id=00173BDC8A5C8ECCA7DB99CA3B9FE1C00AEB4271&thid=OIP.aMEN4n8BYlUqFbMPLhXPvgHaE8&mediaurl=https%3A%2F%2F149362691.v2.pressablecdn.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2021%2F04%2F22.jpg&cdnurl=https%3A%2F%2Fth.bing.com%2Fth%2Fid%2FR.68c10de27f0162552a15b30f2e15cfbe%3Frik%3DcULrCsDhnzvKmQ%26pid%3DImgRaw%26r%3D0&exph=1334&expw=2000&q=beosound+level&simid=608014430113958862&form=IRPRST&ck=7E9E69EBCDE16CE642B905E3DF75A8A0&selectedindex=46&vt=4&sim=11

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NQVHNWI]

I don’t know if a BS Level has any connections other than the power dock, and no connection to the BReciever1. All for the reason I suspect to reduce the cost of the Level and possibly to push Theatre Owners to higher-end beolabs. I.e. 2 pairs of BL28s in the opening marketing campaign.

[NQVHNWI]

I’m not sure of the specifics but there is a technical problem with WISA and WiFi modules in that they have to have antenna separation over 1m apart.

However, that should to my mind not preclude a wired option if their role is expanded to surrounds?

[NQVHNWI]

I purchased an EOL Auralic Altair G1 for my office which are connected to a pair of BL17. This is running at approx £1500 used (the G1.1 and G2.1 are a lot more) and more than your budget indicates.

Three points in this:
First, the BL17s, nice that they are are not good enough for the Altair, so I think your budget is more appropriate at the BL17 level

Second, I found the RCA to RJ45 did not trigger the BL17 on/off. The RCA to RCA works just fine.

Third, your streamer will need to have either electronic attenuation adjustment (-3, -6 and -12dB with -6 and -12dB being useful) or an external attenuator (variable or fixed) which when I attempted this…it sounded very bad.

A BSCore May be a good match and fully integrate into a B&O system and match the qualities of the BL17s. Personally, I did not like the core playing into the 90s so never tested it on the 17s as I have already migrated to an Auralic streaming system across everything in my home.

[NQVHNWI]

Its difficult to understand. I have for a long-time selected Beta-user on the App for the Products I have….but nothing note-worthy happened.

I suspect I initially had “the wrong products” with the focus on I believe on early Mozart products. Then one day, I recieved a B&O satisfaction survey and an invite to join the Beta-programme proper. The feedback method is a rather tedious and difficult to understand product page but B&O do send automated emails indicating imminent downloads and to test the system. You can report bugs, hang-ups and suggest improvements etc.

I am currently on 3 Beta programs: Mozart, ASE and Halo. The updates are coming thick and fast and my products are typically getting software minor updates 1 to 2 times a week.

I think the Beta Development team are working full-on trying to fix bugs across the product board. My experience is that these updates don’t seem to be obvious to my system and testing has not really exposed any problems (A lot of this is what you have equipment-wise, how you use it and to a large degree use multiroom)

[NQVHNWI]

I dont think it makes any difference whether a loudspeaker can do Atmos for Video or Audio only – its the same. I think that all B&O speakers over the last 20-30 years can be integrated into a BS Theatre – which is Atmos enabled.

The problem is with the Mozart group of products which include the Balance which for some reason cannot yet link as either a front or surround loudspeaker to an Atmo soundbar? The BL28s can do it (with the same engine) but Balance and Level cannot??

I think B&O are protecting product financials by closing off these “less expensive” products from being used with a Theatre or Stage.

There has been plenty of noise yelled at B&O over the execution of the Theatre. I am one.

You buy a SoTA Atmos-enabled soundbar with the ability to link external loudspeakers……but B&O dont make any suitable surround speakers. I purchased 3 pairs of white BL3’s. They are the smallest most compact loudspeaker available. Its a 20year-old design. I cant hang 2 pairs of BL18s from the ceiling? BL17s are probably next in size.

In my mind, it would take someone in B&O literally a minute to make the Balance switchable from Mozart-Master to Beolab-slave (and let the Theatre do the DSP). They so far have chosen not to?? But then, even the Balance is rather chunky as a surround.

I suspect (from my sources) that B&O are working on a range of compact (and less compact) dual-purpose Beosounds – either as a single all-in-one source speaker or as a Beolab slave.

I do not expect that any one of these “possible future” Beosounds will be standalone Atmos enabled. I think you will still have to buy a soundbar of some specific type for that to happen.

[NQVHNWI]

FYI….

I’m currently on 2.5.5(1034) on the Mozart (Theatre) Beta programme.

I did not personally experience any issues on 2.5.3 when testing.

[NQVHNWI]

Millemissen wrote:

Furthermore, when you talk about ‘the best audio formats’, you will first have to define what you understand when you write ‘best……’.

Also, it would be nice to know what you mean by ‘The core is not really great and has huge limitations’.

Let me try and put across my key perspective on streaming and streaming players.

1. Listen to a few high end streamers like the Bluesoubds, the Auralics Altairs (£700-1800) and in sound B&O price territory, you will hear clear clear differentiation between those units, BS5, Core, essence on the BL90s, probably on the 50s as well. Go into the Uber high end (£5000++) and it improves again but distinguishing the value proposition becomes more challenging.

FLAC via DNLA into Beovisions is even more muddied – but that may be a function of Powerlink. The world has moved on in many aspects.

2. In terms of sound quality (again through the perception obtained from the BL90 as a transparent benchmark) is that CD sounds very good. Where I believe and understand it is/can be improved dramatically is not having a higher bit rate/sample rate recording but having a device that can upsample a CD to say a resolution like DSD512. Now you may all cry bits are bits and you can’t make more? But – again as I understand it, upsampling “stretches” the signal spectrum and permits more effective filters at ultra high frequencies to take opportunity to subtract noise artefacts from the music signal. The DAC then operates at its computational sweet spot (my Auralic Vega G2 is best at DSD512) to “compress” and convert to analogue.

So to me and my layman’s understanding combined with my listening preference, file quality is not Uber critical, but upsampling and optimal DAC processing doth maketh a good sound and desirable output.

[NQVHNWI]

My personal opinion is that B&O make some very poor Audio players per se. There is nothing like a proper separate streamer in their line-up. Its either the Wifi Boxes, soundbar or via the TV panel App. The BL28 may be the exception?

So that aside, MQA. To me this is nothing but a subtle form of DRM and there’s plenty out there to suggest the wrapper (MQA) actually adds noise.

My Streamer of choice – the Auralic Aries/VegaG2 has no MQA. Auralic refuse to implement it and have algorithms to bypass-it or partially unwrap the music file without MQA.

Linn refuse to implement it for the same reasons. I also believe Naim refuse to implement it as well.

Last I heard a few weeks ago was that MQA had gone into receivership? There is a question as to what Tidal will do now – double down and try and keep MQA (if a Buyer is found) or ditch it.

As an opinionated opinion, however, I do think Qobuz is a superior to Tidal.

[NQVHNWI]

Millemissen wrote:

I must admit that I totally fail to see the point of playing music from a vinyl disc nowadays – now that we can get superior sound from a digital file or a cd.

I don’t disagree with you. I have a very nice BG8002, in what seems very good condition and plays surprisingly well via a cheap RIAA and A2D converter. However, its clear, digital will beat vinyl every which way to Sunday but…….1. There are people who want Vinyl (more Vinyl is currently pressed than there are digital CDs printed – so a market and 2. It makes great furniture or decoration to the living space.

On the 72-23, yes profitable. But the people who buy that have right-on interior decorators with too much money to redecorate someone’s 4th Tuscan Villa. What this does is play back to the old mantra of too much style and no substance – which then kills sales lower down the food-chain.

An absolute world class deck, cartridge and pre-amp (technically) can be had for £10,000 (and for considerably more and for considerably less) so this in my mind says B&O are starting to go back to form, wrapping a dog-turd in 24 carat gold wrapper. As before, silly people will always buy this type of gear but Im more concerned that it will stop people coming to the brand and buying-up as they go.

 

[Author]

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