[Carolpa]

Dear moderators,

The post has gone sometime, this morning.

Technical failure or to sensitive info?

If for a reason whatsoever a post is suspended or definitely deleted, then I would at least expect the poster will be informed. Or the content of the post will be deleted with a remark by a moderator left.

Or will the post be resurrected?

 

[Steph]

Kind of weird…

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Hi carolpa,

You have a PM.

Kind regards, Steve.

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Hi carolpa,

Sorry for the delayed reply, as I needed to make the other moderators aware of the situation.

I received a request from B&O yesterday to remove a post that contained commercially sensitive information so I had no option but to delete this immediately. Beoworld has to comply with legal requests and applicable laws. Ultimately, this site exists to promote our shared love for the B&O brand. The site moderators work closely with B&O in cases where information has been shared that was only made available to a select group of people (in this case Beta testers, who are most likely under a non-disclosure agreement with B&O).

I apologise for not being able to update the thread in the manner that you suggested, as yesterday was my daughter’s exam results day, so I was away from the computer and had to deal with the issue on my phone screen.

Freedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly. However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum.

Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue.

Kind regards, Steve.

[NQVHNWI]

Steve at Sounds Heavenly wrote:

Freedom of speech is an important issue and any post deletion is not done lightly. However, Beoworld needs to ensure that we are not at risk of liability when privileged information is shared in public on our forum. Thanks for your understanding with this sensitive issue. Kind regards, Steve.

Im sorry Steve and other BW mods. B&O made a mistake (again) and should live with it. The NDA aspect does not apply because to OP had no way as a Beta tester to know if this was an open domain or not? Nor was the Beta tester notified that there was confidential information held under NDA. At the very least if B&O still insisted that this mistake be retracted from BW, they should have communicated in a way that it their clear error and the OP notified as the offending post was being withdrawn for those reasons.

The street runs both ways…the errors keep coming from B&O and the pick-ups keep coming from the enthusiasts. The Enthusiasts should not feel to be in the wrong all the time. There is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this – and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that.

ten cents worth. thank you

[Steph]

Ooops!! 🙂 ? ?

[OlivierC]

Hello,

here’s my 1 cent worth (10% of Mr10Percent post! 🙂 ), based also in similar cases happened in the past.

Even if there is an NDA in place, there is no breach if the information has been already publicly disclosed, regardless if it happened intentionally or unintentionally.

e.g. if someone finds a B&O files for a patent related to a new product, or if B&O is submitting a new product to an electronic appliance authority, or if B&O has unintentionally disclosed pictures (as it happened with the Halo), or if something has been already shared in other social media.

On the flip side, I understand this is a rather small community where sometimes B&O is actively supporting the members, therefore to me it makes sense if they say “hey, please BeoWorld, do not be part of the media that it is propagating our leaks”.

As a consequence, it makes some sense that Admins/Mods are limiting the leaks here.

On the other hand the posters have to be considered as members of this community, B&O enthusiasts hungry of information about what’s next (I think we all are!), as far as they are not breaching the applicable laws.

To be fair in that case the NDA does not seem to be the right tool to protect sensitive commercial information.

Applying as a Beta tester for a SW release should not grant visibility to new products, regardless of any NDA that’s been signed. There is no digital NDA that can secure the behaviour of a bunch of unknown single users around the world. B&O should use codenames, as anyone else is doing. The tester would be able to see that something new might come in the future without knowing in detail what it is. A good example of good practice is Geoff Martin’s interview where in a smirk he says he doesn’t remember the BV commercial names but only the internal project names.

Hoping this is a lesson learnt for the “disclosing party” as well.

Regards.

Olivier

[Millemissen]

I am with the admins – Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks.

Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products.

Also it won’t be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O.

Shouldn’t it be possible to wait for that?

100% MM

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Thanks MM,

I appreciate your response.

The people I spoke to at B&O admit that they made an error, but they corrected this as soon as it had been found. As this error was restricted to the limited access Beta programme, their hope was that this wouldn’t be leaked onwards into the public domain.

Neither I nor Beoworld are blaming anyone for sharing the information, or wanting to deny anyone their right of free speech. All we ask is that Beoworld isn’t used as the place to leak details of unreleased B&O products, regardless of the source of the information.

I hope that Beoworld members will understand that this is a B&O fan site that wants B&O to succeed, so that they can continue to make products that we will want/need to purchase long into the future.

Thanks for your understanding.

Kind regards, Steve.

[Carolpa]

Steve at Sounds Heavenly wrote:

Hi carolpa, You have a PM. Kind regards, Steve.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for clarifying.
I did already suspected yesterday that the post was put down for the reason of “sensible information”.
But on forehand I didn’t and still do not expect that product names and codes would/could be so business sensitive to B&o.
I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)!

Thanks for taking time for the extensive explanation, where a simple one would have been sufficient.

regards
Paul

 

[Steve at Sounds Heavenly]

Thanks Paul,

I appreciate your support and I’m grateful for you taking the time to respond. Any questions, please feel free to get in touch.

Kind regards, Steve.

[Carolpa]

Mr10Percent wrote:

There is nothing I see wrong (and B&O should man-up to this – and BeoWorld should make it policy) in publishing any request from B&O that they have made a commercially sensitive mistake and kindly request a take-down of a forum members post. That way it is all honest and B&O keep their commercial sensitive information and everyone recognises that. ten cents worth. thank you

Correct said and a request would always be understandable and acceptable this way!

[Yossi]

« I would say a little buzz about new products could stimulate the appetite for B&o (products)! »

I could not say better…

[Carolpa]

sorry I made a mistake, wanted to edit but clicked the quote button

[matador]

Carolpa wrote:

sorry I made a mistake

I think you did not.
Beoworld is a dying forum relying on the good will and personal money of founders to stay afloat.
unless you really betray some sort of legal arrangement with somebody, I don’t see this like an error.
some members are right, B&O makes us happy with good or less good products, it’s always a storm here But beside that what do we really owe to the brand ? Money? Done. Passion? Done. Loyalty? Done. I believe we can chat about rumors and leaks they are responsible for.
where were they when Beoworld was (is) suffocating, dying? What will be the next step? Don’t say evil about beolab XX? Don’t talk about recurring flaws in the app? Don’t give tips on repair because that will be our next « recreation »?

I’ve already said it: B&O should send their lawyers against compagnies that make copies and plague the market, not enthusiastic little boys that are excited by the next product and will anyway buy it the loud price.
even more. If B&O feel threatened by your original post, they must really concentrate on engineering, creativity and security matters. Because I don’t see any unbelievable revelation in that. What? Satellites for thé 6000€ théâtre? Really? Beoworld shoul sur them because I remember we have talk again tha way before everyone else.
no you did not made a mistake. And no, as a sophomore moderator, I disagree with Allstate happened.

thank you for reading. And delete if needed.

[Carolpa]

Millemissen wrote:

I am with the admins – Beoworld should avoid distributing rumour and leaks. Also leaked pictures of coming products are mostly of minor quality and hardly reveal the porential of these new products. Also it won’t be long after the leaks appear before we get genuine information from B&O. Shouldn’t it be possible to wait for that? 100% MM

dear MM,

the reply reads as you already have inside info on these products. That is explaining your position/vision and somewhat harsh response.

So are you the King, the one-eyed King in the Beoworld of the blind?

A King to keep to his powers?

regards

 

[matteventu]

I’d like to clarify one fact: while an NDA is technically “agreed to” when you enter the “official” B&O beta programme hosted on Centercode (https://tester.bang-olufsen.com/welcome/), i.e. for beta firmware updates and for — guess what — testing in-development products, the Bang & Olufsen app beta release is in no way related to that.

To have access to the beta versions of B&O app, you just need to opt-in via the Play Store or App Store page, and there’s absolutely nothing you need to agree to keep confidential. Anyone can do that freely.

So logic would say that either:

• B&O stops using the beta feature provided by App Store and Play Store (which assumes the beta releases don’t contain any confidential information that can’t be disclosed and openly discussed on the web), and implement a beta programme for the app via other means where before entering it you’re required to sign an NDA

OR

• B&O learns how to develop an app that doesn’t require an update of the whole app just to show the tile of a new product in the list of “products you can add”, which frankly is even pathetic to just mention as the current way is literally how a 5yo would develop the app (they could add the stuff “behind the scenes” in the app and not add the product to the “add product” page, or making it appear there only after a combination of “secret taps” known only by B&O employees, or very easily they could set-up the new “in development” products to appear in the “add product” list only for specific B&O user accounts that have been previously whitelisted after signing an NDA, etc, there’s thousands of ways to implement that in a way that makes sense and without repeatedly committing the same stupid mistakes)

To be clear, I’m saying this in regards to the “stuff is under NDA” comments above. No, it’s not under any NDA 🙂

 

On a separate note, I won’t comment B&O’s ridiculous attitude of reaching out to a tiny forum which basically makes up 90% of their actual brand enthusiasts, requesting to delete a thread because of “confidential” information (that confidential is no longer, once they’ve made the mistake of making it public via a public beta programme).

Oh, and to be clear, “confidential information” = literally just the names “Beo*** X” (I won’t put the actual number, so it remains confidential ?), XX-XX and XX-XX for other two products, and XXXXX XXX for a fourth one.

It’s not like their competitors can get anything useful out of the product names.

Competitor worker A: “Oh, you know, B&O is now developing a new set of [insert product category B&O operates in]”

Colleague of A: “No shit?”

The only actual thing that happens following their kind request to delete that kind of “confidential information”, is that B&O makes themselves look like complete dorks.

 

Hope the tone doesn’t offend anyone.

[9_LEE]

Thanks to all who have replied to this thread, and certainly no offence has been taken by myself at least.

First and foremost, the Mod Team must support each other – and in this instance I’m inclined to leave the post deleted. I have a difference of opinion here, that said. Here are my thoughts.

Did it contain vital information which could ruin a product release? In my opinion, No.

Did it offer competitors an advantage? In my opinion, No.. And in fairness I don’t actually think competitors are that far behind they need half-snippets of information to base their future product lines on…

Bang & Olufsen have, on countless occasions, been utterly useless at keeping sensitive information under wraps. Why this is I have no idea, and surely they can at least look at companies who can do this and learn something..

One point I’d like to make : Is BeoWorld ‘close’ to Bang & Olufsen as a company right now? Well, aside from Geoff Martin (a legend, an enthusiast, and a genuinely decent human being) and a reply to a ‘Hello’ email from Jette Nygaard (who organised our B&O Trips – another genuinely lovely and hard working person at B&O) I have heard absolutely nothing of any substance from B&O for some years now.

As far as a legal perspective, I’m pretty sure we are not legally responsible for ‘leaked’ information by a third party. If this happens, then of course we can look at it – but unless it’s going to destroy a new product, a new genre of product, or completely ruin a product launch, then to be honest I’m going to be inclined to let it roll.

I genuinely wish B&O well but having been involved with the products for a living on a daily basis for the last 20+ years, I have seen a decline based on hubris and stupid decisions which has cost me my business and my future pension. I had a great business, great staff, and a great future. All of this evaporated, as did the livelihoods of many other B&O Dealers who genuinely loved the brand and all it stood for.

An American term I think is appropriate would be saying I’m ‘butt hurt’ by the way the brand has declined, and I really do need to be more positive in my frame of mind. That’s my own problem, though. I’ll get over it.

Thank you again to everyone on here. There are some genuinely decent people around, and I feel fortunate to know them through BeoWorld. I wish you all the best, and will keep my fingers crossed for B&O going forwards.

Lee

[Author]

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